Turning 80 may slow most people down, but not Bjorn Ulvaeus – as he speaks to the Mirror about ABBA’S new project, while also toasting the continued success of the ABBA Voyage
Not many people are seen as innovators when they hit 80. Fewer still can claim the title of musical genius – at any age.
But, after helping his band sell more than 400 million records, as he celebrates the third anniversary of the ground breaking ABBA Voyage avatar show, 80-year-old Bjorn Ulvaeus is still seen as both.
For this irrepressible man, becoming an octogenarian simply means gathering more wisdom and experience.
Excitedly hinting at a new, secret ABBA project, Bjorn tells The Mirror: “There will be something. It is just not crystalised yet exactly what that is. Something new. Yes, I am 80 – but I wake up curious every morning.”
Bjorn spoke frankly about his life in music as two of his bandmates, Benny Andersson, 78, and Anni-Frid Lyngstad, 79, joined him in the UK to toast the continued success of ABBA Voyage, which has contributed more than £1billion to the UK economy since opening in May, 2022.
More than two million fans have enjoyed the 90-minute shows at the immersive ABBA Arena, which features the group – including Agnetha Faltskog, 75 – as lifelike holographic images, churning out hits including Waterloo, Mamma Mia, Dancing Queen and Take A Chance on Me.
And, like their 1976 smash hit Money, Money, Money, it is an absolute goldmine.
More thrilled by its creative success, Bjorn says: “When I first went to Voyage I saw myself as a young man on stage. But the strangest thing is how emotional it is.
“It is amazing how people so quickly forget that they are looking at screens. I was amazed and we had no idea that it would happen. It is almost a spiritual feeling. There is something strange in the room which is amazing.”
The digital avatar show is produced by Pophouse Entertainment, a music investment firm and production company founded by Bjorn and Swedish billionaire businessman Conni Jonsson.
The company is currently looking to use the same cutting edge Voyage technology to bring other avatar shows to life, including the work of US singer Cyndi Lauper and the flamboyant American rockers Kiss.
And Bjorn, who is close friends with Sir Elton John, says other musical avatar extravaganzas are on the horizon.
He says: “I like to work. Working is fun. Our company Pophouse Entertainment has happened out of curiosity and wanting to try new things.
“I like to create new things like the avatars. The ABBA-tars. It was like a playground and to be able to help other people. I see Pophouse as a creative hub with fun attached to it, so you can do fun things.
“We are working with Cyndi Lauper, she has a very diverse catalogue. We are also working with Kiss. We believe it could be a very interesting avatar experience in the trans Marvel universe.
“They wanted cartoons and now they have ascended into the digital world. So that is very exciting for what they stand for. Cyndi is something completely different.
“There are lots of things we could do, too. We could work on documentaries, but there is so much else to do like the gaming world – and who knows what happens around the corner? We are at the forefront. I am so grateful.”
Rumours are already circulating that David Bowie could be brought back to life as an avatar and that The Rolling Stones could soon be launching their own avatar shows.
But Bjorn won’t name any more names.
He says: “It is very exciting. We are looking for a story to tell. We have not seen anything yet…but it is coming. Our show Mamma Mia at the O2 in London took four or five years and Voyage the same, to opening night. These things take time. I want to help people’s legacies.”
Since winning the Eurovision Song Contest in 1974 with their breakout hit Waterloo, ABBA have won countless awards and were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame back in 2010.
Bjorn says the secret to the Swedish sensations’ success is having great songs.
“What advice can I give younger artists other than to write better songs?” he says. “It is still true. This industry starts with a song.
“Whatever it is, it is a song that does it. I say just write a song and record it. If it is good enough then it will work. But you have to be prepared to have people say no to you 10 times, then one will say yes. You have to be prepared to wait and not lose hope. I remember rejection.”
Growing up in Gothenburg, Sweden, Bjorn says it was The Beatles who inspired him to write, but admits he was always jealous of natural storytellers like The Bee Gees.
He says: “I used to listen to The Beatles and that is the reason why Benny and I started writing. Before then, the song writing had been very anonymous, like the people behind Elvis Presley.
“The Beatles were a big inspiration and The Beach Boys as well. But during the 1970s I used to envy people who could write commercial pop lyrics like The Bee Gees. I could not write commercial lyrics. Whatever you are doing you have to tell the story.”
Today, Bjorn says not enough emphasis is put on crafting a song which can go on and help sustain a career for generations.
He says: “Once we won Eurovision we could say no to things. During that process we learned. We only wrote like 14 songs a year.
“People now say they have written 200 songs a year, but I don’t think they have. I would keep 10%. We could go for weeks writing full time and had very little to show for it.
“We would spend a long time in the studio and there is a very special satisfaction when you can listen to something and you think ‘Yeah, this is just how it should be’ It happened many times with ABBA. That is very special. A lot of people walk away thinking it is good enough but it is not. You have to add a few more inches.”
Bjorn’s current project is a secret musical he is writing with the help of AI, which he says helps him to come up with ideas when he gets stuck.
And although working with the International Confederation of Songwriters and Composers, which seeks to protect songwriters from having their works copied by AI technology, Bjorn says AI is a tool that should be embraced for the future.
He says: “Pop music has always been very tech driven. I remember when Benny and I started writing together, we always wanted the latest thing. You would hear a sound and ask how that was done.
“Benny had the first Mini Moog, which was the first synth. When we built our own studio we had digital machines. Tech and music go hand in hand and that is how it continues.”
Laughing at how working with AI is faster than writing with human beings like his co-writer Benny, he adds: “It is quicker writing with a machine, as you get an instant reply and it does exactly what you tell it.
“AI is fantastic and such a great tool. It can give you ideas to go in various different directions.
“There are songwriters using it all around the world as we speak.
“The music industry will come to some sort of agreement with the tech industry to work together, as these AI bots would not exist without the song that we wrote.”
But Bjorn believes AI should not be feared, as when it comes to writing ABBA hits, he says: “When you prompt AI with ABBA it says ‘No, it can’t do that.’ There is a misconception that AI can write a whole song. It is lousy at that. Thank God it is very bad at lyrics as well, but it can give you ideas.”
So, ABBA looks set to be made-up of human members, merely enhanced by innovative technology, for the foreseeable future.
Looking back on his extensive back catalogue, he merely smiles and says: “What is the key to longevity? You have to have that curiosity that I talked about and something that drives you.
“Once you are a songwriter and have an experience of what it is like and see how people react to something you have written, that never goes away.
“I think you can do that your whole life. I enjoy it just as much today as I did before.”